Just been reviewing Milan Rai's book '7/7'. I agree Iraq led to 7/7. I also agree that the sufi tradition of the majority of muslims in the Uk is non violent and tolerent, I sympathetic to 'neo-traditionalism' and opposed to both salifist fundamentalism and the Euston manifesto. I am less convinced that Milan really gets behind the bloodshed, to the individual motives for horrible carnage.
Islam has a tradition of peace and diversity, writers like Seyyed Hossein Nasr have looked at Muslim approaches to ecology.
The choice is not betweeen hatred of Islam or acceptance of reactionery Islam, is about dialogue and support and where necessary disagreement with sufist traditional Islam.
I suppose easy for me, as a Zen practioneer, I belong to a tradition that has produced suicide bombers, but such distinctions are vital. Neither Normblog nor Galloway have the answer.
lets strongly oppose bin laden/salifism and the violence of the West and Isreal.
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What about the Canadian muslims that have tried to attack their MP? Canada has played no part in the raq war.
Adele, do you think that the extremists draw any distinction between combatants and non-combatants? Were the London victims combatants? As far as the extremists are concerned, Canada is part of the "Christian West". The American right (following Huntington) play their game by presenting the current conflicts as a "clash of civilisations".
Christian West, but Britain is truly multicultural.
On the street I live on in Manchester, there are christians, atheists, muslims, sikhs, jews and everyone gets on just fine.
Hi all,
In the video released just yesterday by one of the 7/7 bombers, and in the testimonies of the family members of the bombers, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and continued British support of America and Israel, were cited as the chief motivations. The question is not whether these reasons justify taking innocent lives - clearly they do not. The important issue is how we tackle these causes of terrorism.
Muslims in the West indeed see Huntingdon's 'Clash of Civilisations' as not just a self-fulfiling prophecy, but almost as the official policy of the US and the UK. Like it or not, the unethical foreign policies of Western countries have inspired fear in Muslims across the world, including in Britain.
The New Statesman recently published the UCAS University Application Form of one of the 7/7 bombers. In 2001, he wrote on his UCAS form about his hopes for a career in psychology and science, specifically sport science. However, over the next few years, he became angry at the responses to 9/11 by the Western world and was ripe for conversion to extremism by some radical elements he encountered in his area (who themselves had been radicalised in the Middle-East in light of the Western Cold War policy and support of Israel).
Essentially, terrorism is a problem that, at best, the West inflamed and, at worst (and in my opinon), the West created. You can trace the roots of todays terrorists in Afghanistan, where the West financed the anti-Soviet mujhadeen, who received CIA-training in a series of camps set up around Afghanistan and Pakistan. Some of the 7/7 bombers received training either in similar camps today, or from people who were trained during the Afghanistan War. The roots can also be found in the Palestinain refugee camps of Israel, where helicopter gun ships and Israeli police, armed by the US, make peoples' lives a living hell.
The problem is that the West has not learned the lesson from these mistakes, continuing to support Israel without reservation and launching wars of dubious intent and morals. Many Muslims in this country have become disillusioned at the very country in which they live. While a good point was made on Canada, I agree that the West is seen as a monolithic structure that oppresses the '3rd world' and Muslim countries. While this perception is of course exaggerated by extremists, the West, including Canada, have not been quick enough to pressure Israel on human rights and have not been outspoken enough on the unfairness of world trading terms and rules of foreign debt that have kept 3rd world countries in poverty. Canada may not have supported Iraq (a move that deserves recognition) but they have been far from perfect.
Aled Dilwyn Fisher
I give up.
What about the fact that AlZaqawi declared war on the shias in his own country and took his murderous campaign to Jordan.
What about the atrocities that Palestinians have commited against Israeli civilians.
What about the people that spent years living under the terrible oppression of Saadam Hussain.
Well as green socialist we campaign for non violent and consensual solutions where ever possible, you will certainly find few greens or any one or the left with good words to say about Saddam or suicide bombers.
However, quite clearly intervention in Iraq has fuelled the most atavistic forms of violent Islamic fundamentalism. Human rights don't look very good post Saddam either!
Equally there has been a lengthy pattern of self interested US/Uk intervention...think of when Rumsfeld was praising Saddam and the way that Saddam was supported when he was seen as pro West.
New Labour support for corrupt and authoritarian leaders (think of Italy) should cease, this would be a good step towards a more peaceful and just world.
"What about the atrocities that Palestinians have committed against Israeli civilians" - as Derek said, you'll find that members of the Green Party, ecosocialists or not, are pacifists who condone all violence. I don't think anyone here was applauding suicide bombings or killing.
However, to go to the root causes of terrorism, you have to look at the grievances that turn people into killers. With multiple Israeli checkpoints that often stop and delay ambulances and Palestinians getting to work, the disproportionate responses to terrorist attacks that have claimed a disproportionate amount of Palestinian citizens, and the social and economic apartheid that Palestinians have suffered in the Occupied Territories ever since 1967, you can see that Israel have done a lot wrong. Don't forget that the Israeli government, unlike the various Palestinian factions, have the power of a prosperous state and plenty of US dollars behind them. They have ignored numerous UN resolutions and calls for more measured responses. Nonetheless, they keep committing deplorable human rights abuses (look at what's happened in recent days... depriving the Occupied Territories of utilities and the basic requirements of living). The Palestinian factions are by no means blameless; but Israel has been inflaming long-term grievances with a security-obsessed policy that completely ignores human rights.
Young Palestinians, who have to wait hours at checkpoints in the heat, who have had family members killed by Israelis, who have very little money and suffer great destitution, who have to suffer the indignity of the new 'Security Wall', and who see the rest of the world as ignoring their plight, may feel they have little left to turn to. This is why an appalling extremist group, like Hamas, does so well - they offer a way out when all hope is lost. What we need are policies that give people a way out that is peaceful and constructive.
"What about the people that spent years living under the terrible oppression of Saadam Hussain" - it is a tired tactic to say that opponents of the war support Saddam. This is patently untrue. Nevertheless, many leading NGOs have reported that in many areas, life after Saddam is worse: on average (last time I checked), 38 people die each day in Iraq and that figure is growing. People live in fear of suicide attacks that have multiplied since the war and many suffer frequent blackouts and other inconveniences.
The same is true of Afghanistan - an Amnesty study concluded that violence against women had actually increased after the war and that people felt less safe in an atmosphere of warlord-led civil war.
The horrible truth is that many innocent civilians did not live to see Iraq post-Saddam. I think it is not unreasonable to argue that life (in Iraq, the region and the world) is worse after Saddam, which is saying something - Iraq, the region and the world are less secure, terrorism has multiplied and many people have died for something that was perhaps illegal, and certainly immoral. This is not a call to bring back Saddam – it couldn’t be further from that – but it is a call to make sure that this doesn’t happen again and that Western foreign policies are ethical ones geared to measured responses that place peace, human rights and social justice at the heart of the international agenda.
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