9 Nov 2009

Irish Green Party delegate rejected

The Irish delegate to the committee of the European Green Party failed to be elected at the weekend and, I am told, only received a handful of votes.

This suggests that, while the EGP is certainly more pro EU than the Green Party of England and Wales and while the GPEW is rather more to the left, scepticism about the Irish Green Party is not just confined to Donegal Greens, West Cork Greens, GPEW Greens and Irish voters.

It extends to the European Greens in general.

The decision of the Irish Green Party to move into government with Fianna Fail seems to be a case of political opportunists taking the wrong opportunity.

There is 'realism', there is also the reality of making a choice that leads to failure.


Anonymous said...

Derek, do you know the name of the Irish Green who failed to get elected?

Richard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Derek, you seem to have some bizarre information there.

Firstly, the EGP committee was elected 3 weeks ago and not at the weekend: http://europeangreens.eu/menu/news/news-single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=1531&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=1&cHash=280eb639fc .

However, apart from that, as you must know, the Irish Green Party candidate for the committee was one of over 10 candidates for the 5 general positions on the EGP committee. From what I have been told, the main reason he did not get elected was because they only wanted one candidate from "the islands" and that post was taken by Steve Emmott of the GPEW.

It certainly had nothing to do with the fact that Irish Greens are in government, which seems to be supported by all European Green parties except your own. I also know that even within your party, you have been criticised for your public rants.

Anonymous said...

The above response is typical of Irish Green Party tactics ... attack, personally abuse, and discredit the messenger. There are examples of this on this blog and elsewhere. That says a lot about the quality of the arguments of the attacker. It also says a lot about what the Irish Green Party have become ... namely a bitter, inward looking, defensive, disgrace of a party who are willing to hold on to power at any cost (MAMA anyone?).

The fact is that the Irish delegate failed to get elected because the Irish Green Party are a totally discredited organization. They are losing members and branches almost daily (the latest being from Kerry), and they have fatally damaged Green politics in Ireland for perhaps a generation or more. The European Greens are probably ashamed to be associated with them.

I await an Irish Green abusive response to my message ...

Anonymous said...

"The fact is that the Irish delegate failed to get elected because the Irish Green Party are a totally discredited organization."

That is not "the fact". It is, in fact, "the lie".

Why don't you ask some of the European Greens if you don't believe me? If you want, you could start by contacting the EGP (europeangreens.eu) or, using the link posted above, you could also ask the members of its committee.

However, I doubt you are really interested in "the fact".

Oh...and the post you refer to could not be a typical tactic of the Irish Green Party because it is not from the Irish Green Party!

Anonymous said...

I could give you many, many examples of Irish Greens attacking and personally abusing people. There are a few examples on this site where Irish Greens have slurred and abused Derek. Other examples are where Arthur Doohan has been personally abused and insulted because of his views (just one example here http://doohan.org/blog/2009/09/02/sleeping-with-the-fishes/). There are also many examples on the Green Party section of politics.ie.

I just think that level of personal abuse coming from the Irish Green Party says a lot about the quality of the argument, but perhaps you disagree. I wont personally abuse you for our difference of opinion ;-)

I still think the Irish Green Party are a disgraceful, discredited, sham of a party. The European Greens were correct to reject the Irish Green delegate, because association with the Irish Green Party can only do harm to the European Greens. I dont blame them for rejecting the Irish delegate ... to do anything else would damaged and discredited Green politics in Europe.

Anonymous said...

Well done Derek for bringing this to light.

Keep up the good work!

Anonymous said...

Except that none of this is true. From what I know (and my knowledge is not from the Irish Greens), the Irish Greens are much more popular in the EGP than the GPEW...

but you have all made up your minds anyway, so what's the point? Lets not let the 'facts' get in the way of a good old-fashioned mud-slinging match, shall we?

I do agree with Derek's last line on reality etc. Its just a pity he precedes it by a whole post that is based on untruth.

There are clearly plenty of reasons to criticise the Irish Greens. I don't think Derek has any interest in constructive criticism though.

Anonymous said...

Ok then,its time to justify your claim that we are lying about this. Since you are so interested in "facts" and "truth" lets see you provide even one fact or shred of evidence to support your claim that "the Irish Greens are much more popular in the EGP than the GPEW".

If you can provide any evidence I'd love to see it ... I'd hate to think your assertions are based on "untruth".

Anonymous said...

"I don't think Derek has any interest in constructive criticism though."

More slurs and personal attacks on Derek.

Anonymous said...

The problems within Comhaontas Glas have been there for a long time and pre date going into government. Just look at the number of capable people who have departed in the last say 5 years. You can't build a party if you are continually replacing the members who are departing, but no one seems to care or even ask why.

There was once a time when you would have thought that if elected integrity in office would be a given for the Greens, but no not with this lot. To start we had Trevor who would not lead the party into government with FF, but would be only too glad to accept a junior ministry, then the Tara fiasco, lack of criticism of the speaker's expenses, etc etc and now support for NAMA. It all merely highlights that the planet Bertie speech was nothing more than words without real conviction.

As for continually sullying the reputation of those that depart, former friends, simply disgraceful. How low does a party have to sink to be able to justify this modus operandi?

This party needs reform as they have lost their integrity and the trust of the electorate. The problem lies with the leadership and management.

BigTimGreen said...

@ the poster above who claims that "the Irish Greens are much more popular in the EGP than the GPEW".

I want you to support this claim.

You accuse Derek of lying, and you talk about "facts". You then make the absurd and unsupported assertion that "the Irish Greens are much more popular in the EGP than the GPEW". Utter gibberish! You lost all credibility at that point.

I await any evidence to support your claims, but I doubt if there will be any forthcoming.

Anonymous said...

As I said: the only way to prove it is to contact the EGP. You could get a statement from them and/or their committee members and that would put this whole debate to bed.

I am not willing to or interested in doing that for the simple reason that I am not in the Irish Green party.

I apologise if you take anything I have posted here as a "slur" on Derek. I am not quite sure how you could come to that conclusion. All I have said is that his criticism is not constructive. FTR I called a subsequent comment a lie but not the original post by Derek.

I find the whole anti-Irish Green movement in the GPEW pretty distasteful and pointless. As a paid-up member of GPEW, I was at the workshop on the Irish Greens experience at the recent conference in Hove. I have to say I found the whole thing a completely pointless slagging match.

I can think of plenty of constructive criticisms that could be made of/lessons that could be learnt from the Irish Greens experience in government. However, there seems to be no interest in a rational analysis. Its a pity.

BigTimGreen said...

You made the following slurs against Derek...

1. "Derek, you seem to have some bizarre information there"

2. "I also know that even within your party, you have been criticised for your public rants"

3. "I don't think Derek has any interest in constructive criticism though"

As someone said above these are simply disgraceful slurs.

BigTimGreen said...

@ Anonymous ...

You continue to make the claim that "the Irish Greens are much more popular in the EGP than the GPEW", but you cannot support the claim.

Surprise, surprise!

The readers of this blog will make up their own minds who is more correct ... Derek Wall, or an anonymous, abusive, Internet poster who fails to support any of the claims he/she makes.

I know who I'll be believing ...

Anonymous said...

Believe who you want Tim - if you really want the truth though, why don't you email the EGP or its members? They are not anonymous: the info is all on their website.

Anyway, just to take you up on a point, none of the three things you post above are 'slurs' in the way I understand the word.

(1) The conclusion Derek draws (for which he cites no source) from the EGP committee election is in direct conflict to information I have from members of the EGP. I find it bizarre. That is not a slur. I wonder if Derek can provide any evidence or contacts in the EGP who can confirm it. Perhaps my info is wrong. What I would be interested in is a statement from voting members of the EGP saying they voted against the Irish Greens because of their role in government.

(2) I know of at least one prominent, elected member of GPEW who has criticised Derek for slagging off the Irish Greens. That is not a slur. I am sure Derek could confirm it.

(3) I don't think Derek's criticism is constructive. Again, that is not a slur.

For example, on this post, a more accurate title and post would have pointed out/acknowledged that 6 candidates for the EGP committee were 'rejected'. Do you honestly think they were not elected because the EGP doesn't like their parties? There were more than 10 candidates for 5 posts. Its pretty harsh to describe the unsuccessful candidates as rejects - which is the implication of Derek's post.

He could also have focused on the positives for the GPEW - like Steve Emmott getting elected...much less fun than trying to get a rise though. Well done Steve!

TheVirginiaAndrew said...

The only thing discredited is this blog. Since the Irish Greens went into Government Derek has set as his objective to attack, attack, attack. Not on of his blog posts has highlighted the Irish Green Party achievement - not the highly successful energy insulation schemes, the jump in renewable energy production, the switch to environmental friendly cars, not the planning reforms, not cycle to work, not the directly elected Mayor of Dublin. Nothing, nadda, zilch from Derek.
If you want a reliable source of attacks on the Irish Green Party then Derek is your go to guy. If you want the truth, look elsewhere.

Tommy Joyce said...

"Nothing, nadda, zilch from Derek"

More like "Nothing, nadda, zilch from the Irish Green Party".

They are a disgrace. They are actively supporting a corrupt and incompetent FF government, and that makes them just as bad as FF.

The Irish Greens in Govt have achieved nothing of substance. If you dont believe me just ask two current memners who have said as much on their individual blogs in the last few days. Arthur Doohan and Declan Waugh ... just Google them and see for yourself what they are saying. And they are current Irish Green Party members.

BigTimGreen said...

@ TheVirginiaAndrew ...

You say ... "The only thing discredited is this blog.
If you want a reliable source of attacks on the Irish Green Party then Derek is your go to guy. If you want the truth, look elsewhere."

Yet more slurs and personal attacks. That says a lot about your agruments.

You also say ... "Not on of his blog posts has highlighted the Irish Green Party achievement - not the highly successful energy insulation schemes, the jump in renewable energy production, the switch to environmental friendly cars, not the planning reforms, not cycle to work, not the directly elected Mayor of Dublin. Nothing, nadda, zilch from Derek."

HaHa ... if you are saying that you obviously know very little about what the Irish Greens have delivered in Govt. We do not have a directly elected Mayor, and I havent seen an "environmental" (sic) friendly car on my travels around Dublin today!!!

So what have the Greens delivered in the last 2 and a half years?

Answer = light bulbs, battery recycling box's and a few bikes. (Which Gormley cycles to work on whilst being followed by his ministerial Prius btw).

A disgraceful and vile party ... good riddance.

BigTimGreen said...

@ Anonymous

You email the EuroGreens. You made the claim and now you are refusing to back it up. I think that says all we need to know anout your claims. Typical Irish Green tactic to spin, and divert, and talk a lot of unsubstanciated rubbish that cannot be supported.

I'm believing Derek on this one.

Dave_White said...

The Green Party have achieved nothing. The only thing they have done since 2007 is provide unwavering support for the most incompetent and corrupt government Ireland has ever had.

They will not be missed when they are gone.

TheVirginiaAndrew said...

As an active member of the Irish Green Party I know exactly what we have achieved.
Green car sales are well up thanks to tax changes ( link http://tinyurl.com/y9dj7ap ) and the Mayoralty will be introduced a year ahead of schedule.
You have not questioned our changes in planning and energy, so I presume you accept those as major achievements. Thank you.

I have not attacked Derek personally, I have attacked this blog. I'm sure Derek is a fine fellow but he has developed an irrational hatred of fellow Green activists that needs to be challenged. We are a broad church but Derek, like our own Sarah Palin, wants to bring purity to this movement based purely on his own dogma. As an active member of the Irish Green Party I am fully entitled to rebut this.

TheVirginiaAndrew said...

Tommy, have you thought that maybe the Irish Green Party have dissidents within their ranks who disagree? Our membership approved remaining in Government after a massively renewed Programme for Government with an 82% majority. Derek, care to report any of this? Declan and Arthur I know well and they are good members, but they are in a minority at the moment.
Overall the membership of the Irish Green Party is up - my branch in Galway is the highest it has ever been.

Anonymous said...

Eamonn20Bn plus interest

The Green leadership have been responsible for the following on NAMA:

Bogus Cheap Bank Bailout.
Bogus Long Term Economic Value &
Bogus Estimate of Current Market Value for Irish property.
Bogus Business Plan for NAMA showing Bogus Pursuit of Developers.
Bogus Risk-sharing.
Bogus Levy replaced by Buck Rogers Profit Tax. Nothing for 40 years.

Bogus Government Contol of NAMA.
(SPV never mentioned at meet)
Bogus Bank Guarantee Fee.

I am noticing a disturbing pattern developing.
Would you buy a used car from these people?

BigTimGreen said...

@ TheVirginiaAndrew

You use the following phrases when attacking Derek ...

"irrational hatred"
"Derek, like our own Sarah Palin"
"based purely on his own dogma"

I believe most people would consider that to be insulting and an attack on the man's credibility.

You also say you are not attacking Derek, you are attacking his blog. I think you are being very disingenuous, and the personal attacks you continue to make say everything we need to know about the strenght of your character and the strenght of your arguments. Readers of this blog will make up their own minds I suppose.

I'll admit that Green car sales are up compared to previous years. I'll also admit the cycle to work scheme is good, and that the ban on fur farming is welcomed. But what else has really been achieved? The Green ministers actively support the building of the motorway through Tara. They approve incineration. They are happy to take UK nuclear power through the interconnector. They grant licenses for the capture of live hares for hare coursing. They do nothing about fox hunting. They are silent on Rossport and "Shell-to-sea". They cut funding to Dublin Bus which has a direct impact on the number of busses on the roads. They are silent on the continuing US rendition flights into and out of Shannon. They give a stannding ovation to the Finance Minister when he introduces cuts to education and health, and takes medical cards/benefits from the old. There are many, many other examples of broken Green promises and Green lies. But I'm sure that as an active GP member you know all about those, right?

Just have a look at this 2007 Green party election broadcast and tell me what has been deliveredo on ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvtUeSjzYL0

You say there will soon be an elected Mayor, and improved planning leglislation. Well guess what? No one cares about the elected Mayor, and nothing will be built in this country for the next 50 years because we have a housing supply to last about that long, and no one can afford the houses anyway.

Look at all you have promised and not delivered on. And then look at what irrelevant pittances have been delivered.

And we havent even mentioned NAMA!!! Where is the Green levy on the banks? Where is the Green proposal of fair risk sharing? Where is the much hyped Green social dividend? There are absolutely no Green fingerprints on the most important leglislation ever to be passed in Ireland. None. Whatsoever.

And the biggest Green sin. The unwavering support for the most corrupt and incompetent FF govt Ireland has ever seen. The Green TD's have been more loyal to FF than even the FF backbenchers. A sin that will not be either forgotten or forgiven.

You have succeeded in destroying Green politics in Ireland for a very, very long long long time.

But at least we will have a directly elected Mayor I suppose ...

Doug Ford Jr has a message for Elizabeth May, Caroline Lucas and all the Greens!

Sat at a computer in the library, I am aware that the woman looking at the screen next to me is becoming increasingly agitated.  ...