9 Nov 2009

Skibbereen joins Letterkenny

As a environmental scientist if I wish to continue to build support in the community for sustainable development and green ideologies I find all of my work in attempting to build a low carbon future is now in jeopardy as a consequence of my association with the Green Party.

http://westcorkgreens.blogspot.com/2009/11/future-of-green-politics-is-dead-and.html

Politics is endless struggle, there are not easy answers but disillusioned Irish Greens must create an alternative, time is simply too short, opposing the present non Green Party is essential but so is building an alternative.

11 comments:

Garreth McDaid said...

More rubbish.

Its bizarre that Derek Wall finds time to wage his hate campaign against the Irish Greens.

The UK Government has just announced that it intends to build 7 new nuclear power plants, while the Irish Government, of which the Greens form a significant part, has just announced plans for a Carbon Tax.

In which country are the Greens making a meaningful difference?

Derek Wall might think that pamphlets and marches and talks in the back room of country pubs is going to save the planet, but the rest of have to get on with dealing with reality.

Anonymous said...

This is just more spin and diversion from Garreth McDaid.

The blog post is about the Kerry Greens. Do you have any comment on that or are you just here to insult and slur Derek Wall?

And btw, the Irish Green Party currently have the Energy Minister in the Govt, Eamonn Ryan. The same energy minister who is very, very happy to take power generated from nuclear power in the UK through the interconnector. So we in Ireland are using and promoting UK nuclear power.

Typical of the Irish Greens ... talking absolute lies out of one side of their mouths, and doing the exact opposite while at the same time spinning and lying about it.

Anonymous said...

The Greens have totally capitulated to FF on everything. Show me one Green fingerprint on NAMA.

People will not forget, and the Greens will not be forgiven or trusted again. Good riddance to them after the next election. They have destroyed Green politics in Ireland for the next few generations.

And as for small meetings in pubs ... that'll be where the Irish Green party will be after the next election. How many members and/or branches have the Irish Greens lost today?

Anonymous said...

Greens Against Nama will be holding a meeting on Saturday 14th at the Teachers Club, Parnell Sq from 11am to discuss issues relating to the discontent amongst some party members and the future direction for those members, either collectively or individually, within or outside of the Party

Dave_White said...

The Green Party have achieved nothing. The only thing they have done since 2007 is provide unwavering support for the most incompetent and corrupt government Ireland has ever had.

They will not be missed when they are gone.

TheVirginiaAndrew said...

Utter nonsense Derek from a man waging a war of hate against fellow Greens. You're like the Glenn Beck of the Green movement, considering yourself purer than everyone else!
Our membership is up and we just negotiated a massively renewed programme for government incl ending fur farming, reversing transport spending to favour public transport (including cancelling several major motorway projects), constitutional reform to bring greater equality and a fairer tax system.
Is there a blog post you have done on this?

(Oh and as for Donegal - our energy minister stopped uranium mining there two years ago, a FF minister would have gladly granted permission. Maybe that is why nearly all Donegal members are staying with the Party?)

Anonymous said...

Eamonn20Bn plus interest says:

The Irish Greens are propping up FF who caused a dreadful credit bubble.
Now they are backing NAMA which independent property loan expert Peter Mathews says will lose €20 Bn plus interest.
They have serially deceived on NAMA. Before the NAMA debate I thought they were dreadfully mistaken but honest. Now I know better.

BigTimGreen said...

@ TheVirginiaAndrew ...

At this stage I'm not sure whether you are lying or just misinformed. 91% of the Donegal Greens voted to leave the party. (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/donegal-greens-decide--to-split-from-party-1930796.html) And you have also lost the Kerry Greens. There is open revolt from prominent well respected members like Arthur Doohan. Who will be next to rebel or resign I wonder?

The new pfg is a sham. Nothing has really been achieved ... you got a few meaningless crumbs from the FF masters table. The Green ministers still actively support the building of the motorway through Tara. They still approve incineration. They are still happy to take UK nuclear power through the interconnector. They still grant licenses for the capture of live hares for hare coursing. They continue to do nothing about fox hunting. They are silent on Rossport and "Shell-to-sea". They cut funding to Dublin Bus which has a direct impact on the number of busses on the roads. They are silent on the continuing US rendition flights into and out of Shannon. They give a stannding ovation to the Finance Minister when he introduces cuts to education and health, and takes medical cards/benefits from the old. There are many, many other examples of broken Green promises and Green lies. But I'm sure that as an active GP member you know all about those, right?

Look at all the Greens have promised and not delivered on. And then look at what irrelevant pittances have been delivered... especially the smoke and daggers confidence trick that is the new pfg.

And we STILL havent even mentioned NAMA!!! Where is the Green levy on the banks? Where is the Green proposal of fair risk sharing? Where is the much hyped Green social dividend? There are absolutely no Green fingerprints on the most important leglislation ever to be passed in Ireland. None. Whatsoever.

And the biggest Green sin. The unwavering support for the most corrupt and incompetent FF govt Ireland has ever seen. The Green TD's have been more loyal to FF than even the FF backbenchers. A sin that will not be either forgotten or forgiven.

You have succeeded in destroying Green politics in Ireland for a very, very long long long time.

But at least we will have a directly elected Mayor I suppose ...

TheVirginiaAndrew said...

Tim,

The Donegal Greens did not vote to leave the Party. Of this '91%' you speak of most were personal friends of one member and the meeting was held with 5 days notice. I've spoken to long term Green Party members in Donegal and they are sticking with the Party.
Arthur is one member who was not well known in the Party until recently.
Kerry Greens have not left the Party, do you have a source for this? There are plenty of members who are sticking WITH the Party, including Christopher Fettes who founded the Party.

You've listed (and exaggerated) a long list of areas where we have had to compromise. I'm not denying that we have had to make compromises or that there haven't been hard decisions. That is why Governing with a center right Party in a recession will lead to. But our membership have voted 82% to stay in Government so we can effect will change from the inside.

On NAMA we have a) criminalised lobbying of NAMA b) agreed an 80% windfall tax on rezoning which is a major Green Party aim to combat land speculation c) agreed to replace the entire board of Directors of all the major banks and d) introduced limited risk sharing

You refuse to accept the democratic decision of the Irish Greens and you refuse to accept the achievements we have made. You simple sit in your own tower and ignore the realities we are facing.

BigTimGreen said...

@ TheVirginiaAndrew

Re the Donegal Greens ... 91% of the Donegal Greens voted to leave the party. SOURCE (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/donegal-greens-decide--to-split-from-party-1930796.html) ... the article says "91pc vote in favour of leaving the party." I would consider that to be very damaging, and I'm not surprised you try to spin it positively.

The West Cork Greens are also holding breakaway talks. SOURCR (http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/nov/08/greens-in-west-cork-to-hold-breakaway-talks/). ANOTHER SOURCE (http://westcorkgreens.blogspot.com/2009/11/future-of-green-politics-is-dead-and.html). You should read these two links. They give a very good idea of how some party members are feeling. Declan Waugh actually says, "I find all of my work in attempting to build a low carbon future is now in jeopardy as a consequence of my association with the Green Party." Its not just him ... there are some messages of support from other people agreeing with him.

Kerry Greens ... I can give a source for this sorry. My previous comment is based on a personal conversation and I will not break that confidence. But remember where you heard this first!

And then we have other prominent members such as Arthur Doohan etc. SOURCE (http://doohan.org/blog/). You should also read this. Strong stuff, and indicitive of what many GP members are feeling.

I'm not surprised you are trying to spin this positively. I can see how this is damaging the party.

Your spin on NAMA ... you say "On NAMA we have a) criminalised lobbying of NAMA b) agreed an 80% windfall tax on rezoning which is a major Green Party aim to combat land speculation c) agreed to replace the entire board of Directors of all the major banks and d) introduced limited risk sharing."

The reality on NAMA ... (a) The 80% windfall tax is next to irrelevant and will be for the next 20-30 years as there is at least that amount of zoned land and housing stock available (in fact some put this figure at 50 years). (b) The decision to replace the entire board of directors of all the major banks was already taken by Lenihan. Currently, the boards have not been replaced, and where people have been removed they have been replaced by insiders and bank "lifers" ... the very same people who got us into this mess in the first place. (c) The risk sharing element is what? Is it 5%? Not real risk sharing and very far from what was promised by Eamonn Ryan the week before the pfg.

As for the other areas I've listed (and "exaggerated", altho I'm sure if I had really exaggerated you would be more than happy to be more specific), they are fact. I have no problem with compromise or democratic mandate. But the Green Party have not compromised. You have totally capitulated to FF. You have achieved almost nothing while at the same time you have steadfastly supported the most corrupt and incompetent FF govt in the history of Ireland.

I realise I'm wasting my breath here. I know you will never see ther reality of how the Irish Green party have destroyed the Green agenda in Ireland for a long, long time. I know you dont accept that and will not see that. You dismiss Derek, Arthur, Patricia McKenna, Bronwen Maher, Waugh, etc, etc, etc. In a way I admire your blind faith and unquestioning belief in the Green leadership ... I liken it to a kind of religious fervor or fundamentalism ... the kind Ian Paisley had. Unfortunately its blinding you to the reality of what is really happening, and how the Greens have really sold out and betrayed every single person who voted for them. Just as they will surely betray every one who voted for the new pfg.

And if you dont believe me we'll see what happens to the Irish Green Party after the next Irish General election.

That might, just might, open your eyes to the reality ...

Anonymous said...

The Greens should be very proud of NAMA and their performance in this government.

Obviously this is a very competent government who have done all the due diligence necessary on this intricate bill and we should support it wholeheartedly.

It is the best remedy that has been carefully devised by a group of committed and experienced leaders (with the extraordinary expertise of our financial community at their disposal).

Nama will guide us through this unforeseeable economic tempest with the skill of an aged pilot spurning the manic and adolescent brinksmanship of his confused opponents with a steady hand on the tiller and a feel for the ebb and flow of the property and international markets.

I have come to love NAMA and hope that you, too, will come to see it from a non-deviationalist perspective soon. We are entering a new era of prosperity and economic growth with the passage of this bill.

An Taoiseach Brian Cowen, our beloved Minister of Finance Brian Lenihan, and the amazing Ministers Gormley and Ryan are, without doubt, the finest minds and most astute statesmen we have had in this country for some time. And dont get me started on the colossus that is Dan Boyle!!!

Many may have their doubts now but, mark my words, when the principal thoroughfares of our bustling cities are renamed in their honour you will be able to say to your progeny that you were blessedly alive to see them in action.

What is wrong with the critics of this prudent and timely bill? You should trust this government implicitly after their outstanding performance over the period of the last decade. To distrust the authority of the estates first to fourth demonstrates a clearly diseased mentality and should be treated rather than indulged.

Long Live Nama ...