29 Nov 2009

Boycott Switzerland! Minaret ban vote goes wrong way


'The Geneva Mosque was vandalised on Thursday when someone threw a pot of pink paint at the entrance.

Earlier this month, a vehicle with a loudspeaker drove through the area imitating a muezzin's call to prayer and vandals damaged a mosaic when they threw cobble stones at the building.

Rights' defenders have raised vocal objections to the campaign posters, which show minarets rising like missiles from the Swiss flag next to a fully veiled woman.

Minarets are typically built next to mosques for religious leaders to call the faithful to prayer, but they are not used for that in Switzerland.'

More here




Looks sadly like the xenophobes have won the vote at least according to exit polls http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2009/11/2009112912250816889.html

It looks like a scary white country.

Islam has been demonised, which of course will be helpful to those who want to promote hatred.

I guess Bin Laden and the Swiss People Party will both be celebrating.

Islam is as European as it gets, think of Spain as a Muslim country, an oasis of tolerance and culture in the 14th century.

Also depressing because many Muslims in Switzerland were literally forced out of the former Yugoslavia by bigots who burnt mosques.

Saudi Arabia bans churchs which is appalling, looks like Switerland wants to ban mosques, banning places of religious worship is wrong!

Its a historical accident that much of Europe isn't Muslim, Jesus wasn't born in Berne, in a different history one can imagine Christians being attacked as non European.

Incidentally all the people of the book share the old testament and the same God, so it would be nice if they practicised tolerance.

45 comments:

Anonymous said...

Maybe the US & other nations should try Swiss style direct democracy?

The Swiss just voted to ban minarets on mosques and this is a great exercise of their unique form of direct democracy regardless of your views on the subject. But my question is why do the Swiss get to overrule their politicians and parliament and here in the US, we don’t have that right?

Let’s bring Swiss style direct democracy to the United States so Americans can vote on the Wall Street bailouts, government health care, whether to audit or abolish the FED, or require Congress declare war before we invade another country. Read why Switzerland is free and America is not and help restore citizen control over the US government and Congress currently under control of special interests. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/holland9.1.1.html

Paul said...

Good point about Switzerland being a direct democracy. Of course having voted to ban Minarets (which are intended to display Islamic dominance over an area), then Derek as usual trots out heaps of unreferenced Islamic propaganda.

'Islam is as European as it gets, think of Spain as a Muslim country, an oasis of tolerance and culture in the 14th century.

Also depressing because many Muslims in Switzerland were literally forced out of the former Yugoslavia by bigots who burnt mosques.'

Do you have a source to substantiate the claim that Swiss Muslims were forced out of the Former Yugoslavia? Also Spain in the 14th Century was ruled according to Sharia law. Those laws like Islam have not changed since then or earlier. How are they tolerant? Is it tolerant to execute people who leave Islam? Or subjugate women and non-Muslims as lesser subjects? The ban is not on Mosques it is on Minarets. Regrettably the Muslim organisations in Switzerland or elsewhere in the west never address the plight of Christians in their countries of origin. For that and other reasons I always tend to regard claims of Muslim victimhood in the west as being disingenuous.

Anonymous said...

Paul, are you sure you live on the same planet we do... Muslims were put in concentration camps, images of destroyed mosques everywhere in Yogoslavia. The muslim world should accept however the peoples choice; and boycott all products made in Switzerland and by Switz in general - about 1,000,000,000 people not buying their product should send just about an equal vote in freedom as the Switz think they just did.

John R said...

Swiss voters, of their own free will, voted for a policy that you dont like.

You call this "wrong".

What's "wrong" here is presuming that you, and only you, have a monopoly on what is "right".

Given your behavior here, is it now not right to ask what happens when UK voters (at any level) make a decision that goes against Green policy? Will you just ignore it?

Or will you "cook the books" like Labour has done over the European Constituion and prevent any vote being allowed at all?

Your condescending position on another country's democratic decision is all the evidence needed for most people to decide you are not a party that's safe for us to vote for.

Derek Wall said...

well if there was a vote to put Jehovah witnesses in camps I would protest,

direct democracy is something I support but I oppose right winger tossers who spread hatred.

if you could burn witches, some of you would.

Anonymous said...

As peace loving muslim, I feel truly shocked and horrified.
I see that what happened to the jews in Germany in the 1930s and 1940s started to happen against us as well.
I call on all 54 Muslim countries and all the 1.5 billion muslims worldwide to boycott these bigots and withdraw our billions from their banks, time to punish them in civil and non violent way..it is the way which hurts them more than violence.

Anonymous said...

I always thought the Swiss people to be relatively intelligent and tollerant. This 'ban' on Minarets just goes to show that ignorance is not the preserve of biggots!

Political Islam is an ideology - and you cannot destroy an ideology by banning a piece of architecture!

The Right in Switzerland as elsewhere in Europe are stoking the flames of Islamophobia - for their own narrow political interestes. The press and media have gone along with it! Not far removed from what the Nazi's did in the 1930's.

Millions gave their lives in WW2 to preserve the freedom that we all enjoy regardless of our race, religion or creed! Muslims from all parts of the world fought aginst the Nazi's from the British Empire and elsewhere!

So what Europe allowed the Nazi's to do to Jews ahould now be done to Muslims?

Wake up and smell the coffee! There are some 1.5 billion Muslims on thei planet that is nearly 1 in 4. Switzerland like the rest of europe and the West needs to trade with Muslims.

If banning of the Minarets is symbolic for the right wingers in Switzerland let's see what happens when Muslims start withdrawing their funds from swiss banks as 'symbolic' of their response to this ridiculous ban - and Muslims all over the pwrld stop buying Swiss luxury products!

Perhaps then all the unemployed Swiss can be utilised to build more symbols to honour the right wingers whose only ideology is hatred!

Hope will always triumph over hatred!

this machine kills fascists said...

derek

if some people could burn the jews again they would, too.

Try the MPACUK site for a little shocker. My jaw hit the floor when I read some of the comments there. With them and the BNP, we are developing a whole part of our community that has a loathing for the jews.

I have lived very close to a mosque overseas and I'd certainly not allow them to make that bloody racket at 5.00 a.m. in praise of their imaginary man in the sky.

Darwin must be spinning in his grave.

Mr Andy C said...

I'm sure most of you have read this, but it is still relevant today:

'First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.'

It is the trick of all extremist parties. Target one group at a time. Once they have got the message that Muslims are unwelcome in Switzerland who are they going to target next?

Paul said...

This debate is going a bit crazy. I mean 'It is the trick of all extremist parties. Target one group at a time. Once they have got the message that Muslims are unwelcome in Switzerland who are they going to target next?'

Come on this is a populist measure by the Swiss for sure, but they aint gonna to put anyone in a gas chamber. They did however have every right to ban minarets. The latter are intended as a symbol of Islamic Supremacism and Imperialism. Like building a crusader castle.

Anonymous said...

Paul, you continue to live on another planet. If the minaret is a sign of "islamic dominance" then what you are saying is that you will only be accepted as you are like me - by the way, the quran speaks of "your kind" in that "they (meaning you) will not accept you (muslims) until you (muslims) become like them (you)..." If this is fear of living in a Muslim society; what is your next step for the largest growing religion in the world - concentration camps (sure not now, let's say maybe, um, 30 years from now? Is that a good timeline for you and your ilk to move from words and banning of minarets to more sinister ways - maybe it's the "final solution" by then too.

This disbelief should be taken in the context of saving the Swiz freedom from themselves.

Anonymous said...

Muslims certainly want a green world! It just happens not to have anything to do with ecology. And Switzerland has taken a bold, much-needed step in the fight against Islamization of the West. We're NOT green -- at least, not Islam-green.

Anonymous said...

Islam is not a religion like others (Christianism, Budhism etc.).Its sacred book (i.e the Koran) promote submission of other believers or even to slaughter them if they resist.So we have to make a difference between a murderous religion and others.It is completly opposed to western values and Switerland tradition and culture.
It is a first step and long life to Switzerland democracy and people who show the way to do and are really free.

Anonymous said...

As a disabled person I notice that the Pastor Niemoller poem does not mention the oppression of disabled people under the Nazi tyranny. Under Nazi tyranny, disabled people were worked to death in a policy that can be translated as 'destruction through work'.

The concept of the poem is fine though. I am a working-life long disabled volunteer and now ESA claimant preparing for a tribunal to confirm my eligibility for that benefit. In the summer the 'Examining Medical Practitioner' -- aka Atos axeman -- recorded that I had last worked four years ago, and omitted reference to the decades that I had been unsuccessfully on jobseeker benefits.

One of my current volunteering roles is as ICT teaching volunteer at a local community centre, for six hours per week. One of my learners is a Somali woman with 'no recourse to public funds' and thus no access to ESOL classes. So in teaching her touch-typing via the BBC Schools 'Dance Mat' online typing tutor -- designed for 7-11 year olds -- and pronouncing the words for her, I am helping to expand her command of the English language and ability to fit in.

I also know that per person funding for adult learning has been effectively cut over the decades. In the year 2000 the Blair govt halved the length of Web Development training periods for exiles from the dole queue so as to double the throughput from the dole queue. If I was an adult learner of ESOL emerging from one unsafe environment abroad, trauma would already be a barrier to my learning ESOL. (Fortunately staff at East London College won an industrial dispute to keep ESOL classes and teaching jobs alive recently.)

Tolerance and kindness are languages that host populations should learn to help people from other cultures assimilate into the host society. Yet ignorance and tabloid smear stories do not breed citizen empowerment -- only ignorance and hostility, etc.

Alan Wheatley

Paul said...

'Paul, you continue to live on another planet. If the minaret is a sign of "Islamic dominance" then what you are saying is that you will only be accepted as you are like me - by the way, the Quran speaks of "your kind" in that "they (meaning you) will not accept you (Muslims) until you (Muslims) become like them (you)..." '

Minarets are intended to display that a country has been dominated by Islam. Interesting that you like many other Muslims, base your arguments on the Qur'an. This is where the problem with modern Islam lies. The Qur'an reigns supreme and with it it's injunctions against women, also it's call for Jihad against non-Muslims until they accept Islam or live as inferiors (Sura 9:29). This makes it quite unlike the Old Testament which is abrogated by the New. This problem has been testified to by notable people such as Irshad Manji. My reason for commenting on here is that I'm concerned with the continuous efforts of the esteemed author of this blog to sugar-coat the issue. In doing so we ignore the elephant in the living room, political Islam. I'm sorry your feelings are hurt by the Minaret ban, mine were by the recent activities of Islam4uk. However I wish to express my full support for the Muslims for Secular Democracy organisation. The tragedy is the latter organisation cannot mandate its arguments according to Islamic scriptures, whereas Choudhary and his thugs can. If only the Green and other parties would support Secular Muslims.

Derek Wall said...

Paul you don't like Muslims do you!

The Pope has done shitty thinks but I would not ban the construction of spires on churches.

Aaron said...

Don't feed the trolls Derek, delete their bullshit.

Anonymous said...

I have always respected the Swiss people and their tolerance, but after the ban I discovered how much these people are bigots and ignorant. I can't understand why the Swiss people who are only 7 million are attracting the hatred of 1.5 billion people. These people didn't when they voted that this will affect their relations with the whole Muslim world from Morocco to Indonesia. I think this whole vote was a very stupid thing.

I think by the same way the Swiss should accept the idea of the Muslim world boycotting their products. Here is a link with all their companies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Switzerland

Also many Muslims especially from the Gulf region go to Switzerland either for tourism, or to open bank accounts there, I think this practice should be stopped and we divert all the money back to the Muslim World. Malaysia now is a very popular destination for both tourism and Sharia-Law compliant banking.

Let's play with them the same democracy game and see who wins and who loses.

Paul said...

'Paul you don't like Muslims do you!

The Pope has done shitty thinks but I would not ban the construction of spires on churches.'

Historically yes that is true. The issue is not about Muslims per se it is Islam and Islamic supremacism. Surely if I disliked Muslims in general I would not support Muslims for secular democracy. Come to think of I also mentioned Irshad Manji. Still it must be a difficult subject if one of your mates wants to ban me, very authoritarian streak with some people.

this machine kills fascists said...

reminds me of my favourite Half Man Half Biscuit Lyric:

They came for the palmists, but I wasn’t a palmist so I did nothing
They came for the bungee jumpers, but I wasn’t a bungee jumper so I did nothing
They came for the reflexologists, but I wasn’t a reflexologist so I did nothing
They came for the camp TV chefs, but I wasn’t a camp TV chef so I did nothing
They came for Eamonn Holmes and I think I’m right in saying I applauded
They came for the fire-eaters, but I wasn’t a fire-eater so I did nothing
Sometimes it's best to turn a blind eye.

seriously, we should be more concerned about Muslim countries' hostility to homosexuals (even executing them) and the way they treat women, and the nature of some of the vile anti-semitic comments easily found on UK muslim websites, we need to see it for what it is. Muslims and brown people can be unpleasant too, despite your middle-class guilt.

Of course, the huge majority of muslims are as level-headed as the huge majority of the rest of the populace. But see fascists wankers for what they are, wherever they are and whatever religion, creed or colour.

Besides, anyone following a retarded religion is out of the game for me. Darwin anyone? Let's not allow any of these nutters, of whatever persuasion, to keep making life worse for the rest of us.

Tony said...

If this machine really killed fascists it would kill itself

Jay Kactuz said...

The minarets are harmless - but not Muslims. They preach hate and violence. They just don't preach it, they do it. They believe in a god that delights in torture (Or maybe skinning people alive and pouring burning oil down a throat, as it says in the Quran, is ok). They follow a man called Mohammud, that according to Islam's own traditions, attacked, plundered, killed, raped, enslaved men women and children, raped and even beat his 9 year-old wife. Even so the Quran says this man is a "moral" example to follow. Even the so-called nice good Muslims except these things.

Note also that everywhere Islam dominates it discriminates and oppresses. In case you haven't noticed, Muslims do not accept freedom of speech and religion nor separation of religion and state. oor maybe you have noticed the human rights situation in islamic societies.

This isn't hate or islamophobia; it is speaking out against an oppressive ideology. For years the West has been nice to Islam and Muslims and we have gotten nothing but hate and violence in return. Muslims refuse to look at the ugly issues in their religion. We need to draw a line in the sand and tell them that they must stop their hate, discrimination and violence.

Oh yes, they can still build their mosques to worshop their moon god and bow to their rock in Mecca. The Swiss ban was just to let them know that we are tired of their tantrums.


Kactuz

WAM said...

i'm a muslim from the middleeast.
i got hurt when i heard about the swiss vote against Minaret. I'm not sure if Minarets in siwtzerland were misused by muslims, or the vote was in general against a muslim symbol.

But anyway, i respect their decision which gives a new proof that Europe is not that much advanced than middle east countries in human rights or freedom of believes.

Derek Wall said...

Jay you are full of hate, Islam is a religion, one of great beauty, in contrast look at all the US military bases bayonetting the planet!

Do you know any Muslims are you a lonely irrationalist who believes Fox news and worse.

Muslims, Jews, Christians have the same god, I am not a believer in god but they look much the same, they have some aggressive followers and you can find extreme things in their respective theologies but also compassion and beauty,

Jay Cactus said...

The synagogues are harmless - but not Jews. They preach hate and violence. They just don't preach it, they do it. They believe in a god that delights in torture (Or maybe skinning people alive and pouring burning oil down a throat, as it says in the Talmud, is ok). They follow a man called Abraham, that according to Judaism's own traditions, attacked, plundered, killed, raped, enslaved men women and children, raped and even beat his 9 year-old wife. Even so the Talmud says this man is a "moral" example to follow. Even the so-called nice good Jews except these things.

Note also that everywhere Judaism dominates it discriminates and oppresses. In case you haven't noticed, Jews do not accept freedom of speech and religion nor separation of religion and state. oor maybe you have noticed the human rights situation in Jewish societies.

This isn't hate or Anti-Semitism; it is speaking out against an oppressive ideology. For years the West has been nice to Judaism and Jews and we have gotten nothing but hate and violence in return. Jews refuse to look at the ugly issues in their religion. We need to draw a line in the sand and tell them that they must stop their hate, discrimination and violence.

Oh yes, they can still build their mosques to worshop their moon god and bow to their rock in Zion. The Nuremburg Laws were just to let them know that we are tired of their tantrums.

Jay Cactus (not real name) said...

I kind of feel like I should apologise to Derek for posting a vile Goebbels-style anti-Semitic rant on his excellent blog.

Ii is, of course, a simple find/replace on Jay Kaktuz's post... the point being, of course, to illustrate the vile Goebbels-style racism of the Islamophobes on this thread.

I hope I made the point.

Paul said...

Derek, you may have just contradicted yourself. You state how you have no religious views fair enough. But post after post on here is telling people how 'Cool', 'tolerant', 'green' or 'feminist' Islam is. Such posts of course are unreferenced but those are your exact words with regards to Islam continuously on this site. Except you never tell people how cool Buddha was? Or how Green Jesus is or was? My point is that by sugar-coating Islam continuously you ignore the danger posed by fundamentalist Islam.

The appeal that you make towards Muslims, that if they follow their religon they will respect the environment contains a serious danger. What happens when an otherwise secular Muslim starts to follow your advice, but then also realises the Qur'an contains demands for Jihad? He could go from LINE to say Hizb Ut Tahir or other forms of Islamism. Therefore it would make perfect sense to promote secularism. In fact the latter should be aimed at all religions and lets kick the Bishops out of the House of Lords, before they get replaced by Imams. Oh and anyone calling me a racist should check my blog. Thanks for hosting this debate anyway even if it did get frayed at the edges in parts.

Shayan said...

I'm Iranian. In Iran we have more than 600 churches and I don't know how many synagogues, but quite a lot! We also have Zoroastrian temples and even Hindu temples in the South-Eastern part. Churches, synagogues, mosques and Zoroastrian temples have stood side by side for thousands of years without any problem, and without the slightest objection from people! Many of the more than 600 churches in Iran were built in modern times, and some even after the 1979 revolution! The Churches, synagogues and Zoroastrian temples even receive funding from the fundamentalist theocracy!

I have heard some people saying "If we can't build churches in their countries, then why should they be allowed to build mosques in our countries?" Well, this is not entirely correct. The only Muslim country that forbids churches or other non-Muslim places of worship is Saudi Arabia! Saudi Arabia is heavily influenced by the most radical and extreme school of Islam, invented by a Saudi man some 250 years ago: Wahabism! It is this kind of Islam which has become rooted in Pakistan and Afghanistan after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan! But in virtually all other Muslim countries churches are allowed and exist as well.

And even if they were not allowed, why would a society that claims to be free, democratic and tolerant want to lower itself to the level of Saudi Arabia? If they do that, then how can they be any better?

I'm not even religious, but I will not set my foot on Swiss territory as a visitor, nor will I any longer buy any Swiss products! There must be a high price to pay for intolerance and violating the rights of people! I no longer hold a good view of Switzerland! I didn't know that 30% of the Swiss people vote for the racist right-wing extremist party! I was shocked to learn that this party is the biggest political party in their country! I used to have a very positive view of Switzerland, but no longer!

Shayan said...

I'm Iranian. In Iran we have more than 600 churches and I don't know how many synagogues, but quite a lot! We also have Zoroastrian temples and even Hindu temples in the South-Eastern part. Churches, synagogues, mosques and Zoroastrian temples have stood side by side for thousands of years in Iran without any problem, and without the slightest objection from people! Many of the more than 600 churches in Iran were built in modern times, and some even after the 1979 revolution! The Churches, synagogues and Zoroastrian temples even receive funding from the fundamentalist theocracy!

I have heard some people saying "If we can't build churches in their countries, then why should they be allowed to build mosques in our countries?" Well, this is not entirely correct. The only Muslim country that forbids churches or other non-Muslim places of worship is Saudi Arabia! Saudi Arabia is heavily influenced by the most radical and extreme school of Islam, invented by a Saudi man some 250 years ago: Wahabism! It is this kind of Islam which has become rooted in Pakistan and Afghanistan after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan! But in virtually all other Muslim countries churches are allowed and exist as well.

And even if they were not allowed, why would a society that claims to be free, democratic and tolerant want to lower itself to the level of Saudi Arabia? If they do that, then how can they be any better?

I'm not even religious, but I will not set my foot on Swiss territory as a visitor, nor will I any longer buy any Swiss products! There must be a high price to pay for intolerance and violating the rights of people! I no longer hold a good view of Switzerland! I didn't know that 30% of the Swiss people vote for the racist right-wing extremist party! I was shocked to learn that this party is the biggest political party in their country! I used to have a very positive view of Switzerland, but no longer!

Shayan said...

Jay Kactuz - people like you should be used in commercials for contraceptives!

Anonymous said...

even better in mentally retarded people commercials

Anonymous said...

People who say Muslims are intolerant should look at how many churches, temples and other places of worship exist in the Islamic world. Pakistan has plenty of churches, and Sikhs routinely come from Indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab to visit their holy shrines. Iran has many holy sites. Many Muslim countries even have MPs set aside from religious and ethnic minorities- not like the "democratic loving" Americans or Europeans!

As for Saudi Arabia. I understand its position. It is the founder of the religion, the guardian of holy sites. It is, however, also a country that few citizens of non-Islamic background would really live in. Honestly, how many American Christians or Indian Hindus are going to live in Saudi, learn Arabic, go to Camel races, wear burqas, etc? None. They just want the money and to leave. Why Saudi should build religious buildings to people who will never stay, fit in and settle in their country is puzzling. For example, many Muslims in the West wear jeans, learn the local language- not so with Westerners in Muslim communities.

I disagree with the comment about Anti-Semitism too. Jews, are not like other religions. While Irish Catholics may have some link to their homeland and faith, they generally aren't as 'tribal' as Jews. Many Jews- even Canadian born- serve in the Israeli army and work in intelligence. I was floored by how many IDF uniforms were worn at York Universtiy (and I'm just talking about the girls!!!!!). Even if an Irishman were to spy on Saudi what would he do give the plans to the IRA? Who cares. A Jew may give it to Israel who may then use it against the Saudis. Jews are just a bit too 'tribal' for my tastes. Hence, the 'discrimination'.

The Muslims in the West have integrated much better than any Westerner/Christian could ever integrate into the Muslim world. Yet they are the excuse for all of Europes probs. Europe is such a home to low-birth, frozen, racist, small-minded scared Christian people that any smart immigrant would leave their and take their money and skills with them. The violence done to their homelands by 'civilized' Westerners exceeds any damage they could do to others.

Hence, I am joining the Swiss boycott. Also, if the Europeans keep bashing Muslims and opposing mosques we should start bashing Christians and banning Churches. Fair is fair!!!!!

Anonymous said...

The Swiz are just afraid. They are materializing that fear through the brick and mortor that makes up a minaret. They are afraid that in a democratic country, their voice may be drowned out - kind of like the voice of the 400K muslims who were ignored in this vote. Unfortunately for the Swiz, that's how democracy works. Muslims will continue to grow in your country. If that majority ever decides to have Sharia law, then move out.

Otherwise, stop insulting our intelligance by claiming to be a neutral democratic nation - in reality your nothing more than a extremist, racit, facist gang that comes together every now and then to vote on your dasderdly deeds.

If you are afraid of loosing power, then reality is you are afraid of democracy.

Stop justifying your racism by pointing out the shortcoming of others - it's what all terrorists use as justification when they blow-up things and people.

Anonymous said...

An another note... you should leave Swiz as the Muslims are coming the Muslims are coming! Leave all your valuables behind! Take nothing it will only slow you down!

That should be enough to scare a bunch of racits and open up a whole tonne of free land, buildings and other items. We can move the Palistinians that have been forced from their homes to Swiz.

Anonymous said...

Boycott Saudi Arabia! Boycott oil! Saudi Arabia is destroying the earth. Support green energy!

Derek Wall said...

I have no problem about boycotting Saudi Arabia, they have the worlds worst human rights and don't tolerate spires.

Shame to see Switzerland moving in the direction of intolerance....and on oil, yes we all need to use less.

Anonymous said...

People who say Christians are intolerant should look at how many mosques, temples and other places of worship exist in the Western world. Europe has plenty of mosques, and the Sikh population has many holy temples in the UK. France has many mosques. Israel even has Muslim MPs, despite the terrorism!

As for Switzerland, I understand its position. It is a white Christian country. It is, however, also a country that few citizens of non-Christian background would really live in. Honestly, how many Iranian Muslims or Indian Hindus are going to live in Switzerland, learn Swiss German, go to Alphorn concerts, wear lederhosen, etc? None. They just want the money and to leave. Why Switzerland should build religious buildings to people who will never stay, fit in and settle in their country is puzzling. Most European countries are too tolerant - for example, many Muslims in the West wear jeans, learn the local language- not so with Westerners in Muslim communities, who wouldn't be trusted if they dressed like Muslims.

I disagree with the comment about Islamophobia too. Muslims, are not like other religions. While Irish Catholics may have some link to their homeland and faith, they generally aren't as 'tribal' as Muslims. Many Muslims - even Indian born - push Islamist ideology and work for the glory of the Ummah, not their nation. Of course this is part of the "best nation" syndrome, which Muslims believe because they think Allah told them so in the Koran. Even if an Irishman were to spy on India what would he do give the plans to the IRA? Who cares. A Muslim may give it to Pakistan who may then use it against the Indians. Jews are just a bit too 'tribal' for my tastes. Hence, the 'discrimination' and 'hate'. It's not 'hate' to want evil people dead.

The Muslims in the West have integrated much better than any Westerner/Christian could ever integrate into the Muslim world, because the Muslim world is so intolerant. Yet they demand tolerance from Europeans. The Middle East is such a home to breed-like-rabbits, sandy, racist, small-minded scared Muslim people that any smart immigrant would leave their and take their money and skills with them. The violence done to their homelands by 'integrating' Muslims exceeds any damage they could do to others.

Hence, I am joining the Saudi boycott. Also, if the Muslims keep bashing Europeans and opposing churches in Saudi Arabia we should start bashing Muslims and banning Mosques. Fair is fair!!!!!

Anonymous said...

People who say Christians are intolerant should look at how many mosques, temples and other places of worship exist in the Western world. Europe has plenty of mosques, and the Sikh population has many holy temples in the UK. France has many mosques. Israel even has Muslim MPs, despite the terrorism!

As for Switzerland, I understand its position. It is a white Christian country. It is, however, also a country that few citizens of non-Christian background would really live in. Honestly, how many Iranian Muslims or Indian Hindus are going to live in Switzerland, learn Swiss German, go to Alphorn concerts, wear lederhosen, etc? None. They just want the money and to leave. Why Switzerland should build religious buildings to people who will never stay, fit in and settle in their country is puzzling. Most European countries are too tolerant - for example, many Muslims in the West wear jeans, learn the local language- not so with Westerners in Muslim communities, who wouldn't be trusted if they dressed like Muslims.

I disagree with the comment about Islamophobia too. Muslims, are not like other religions. While Irish Catholics may have some link to their homeland and faith, they generally aren't as 'tribal' as Muslims. Many Muslims - even Indian born - push Islamist ideology and work for the glory of the Ummah, not their nation. Of course this is part of the "best nation" syndrome, which Muslims believe because they think Allah told them so in the Koran. Even if an Irishman were to spy on India what would he do give the plans to the IRA? Who cares. A Muslim may give it to Pakistan who may then use it against the Indians. Muslims are just a bit too 'tribal' for my tastes. Hence, the 'discrimination' and 'hate'. It's not 'hate' to want evil people dead.

The Muslims in the West have integrated much better than any Westerner/Christian could ever integrate into the Muslim world, because the Muslim world is so intolerant. Yet they demand tolerance from Europeans. The Middle East is such a home to breed-like-rabbits, sandy, racist, small-minded scared Muslim people that any smart immigrant would leave their and take their money and skills with them. The violence done to their homelands by 'integrating' Muslims exceeds any damage they could do to others.

Hence, I am joining the Saudi boycott. Also, if the Muslims keep bashing Europeans and opposing churches in Saudi Arabia we should start bashing Muslims and banning Mosques. Fair is fair!!!!!

Anonymous said...

People who say Christians are intolerant should look at how many mosques, temples and other places of worship exist in the Western world. Europe has plenty of mosques, and the Sikh population has many holy temples in the UK. France has many mosques. Israel even has Muslim MPs, despite the terrorism!

As for Switzerland, I understand its position. It is a white Christian country. It is, however, also a country that few citizens of non-Christian background would really live in. Honestly, how many Iranian Muslims or Indian Hindus are going to live in Switzerland, learn Swiss German, go to Alphorn concerts, wear lederhosen, etc? None. They just want the money and to leave. Why Switzerland should build religious buildings to people who will never stay, fit in and settle in their country is puzzling. Most European countries are too tolerant - for example, many Muslims in the West wear jeans, learn the local language- not so with Westerners in Muslim communities, who wouldn't be trusted if they dressed like Muslims.

I disagree with the comment about Islamophobia too. Muslims, are not like other religions. While Irish Catholics may have some link to their homeland and faith, they generally aren't as 'tribal' as Muslims. Many Muslims - even Indian born - push Islamist ideology and work for the glory of the Ummah, not their nation. Of course this is part of the "best nation" syndrome, which Muslims believe because they think Allah told them so in the Koran. Even if an Irishman were to spy on India what would he do give the plans to the IRA? Who cares. A Muslim may give it to Pakistan who may then use it against the Indians. Muslims are just a bit too 'tribal' for my tastes. Hence, the 'discrimination' and 'hate'. It's not 'hate' to want evil people dead.

The Muslims in the West have integrated much better than any Westerner/Christian could ever integrate into the Muslim world, because the Muslim world is so intolerant. Yet they demand tolerance from Europeans. The Middle East is such a home to breed-like-rabbits, sandy, racist, small-minded scared Muslim people that any smart immigrant would leave their and take their money and skills with them. The violence done to their homelands by 'integrating' Muslims exceeds any damage they could do to others.

Hence, I am joining the Saudi boycott. Also, if the Muslims keep bashing Europeans and opposing churches in Saudi Arabia we should start bashing Muslims and banning Mosques. Fair is fair!!!!!

Anonymous said...

People who say Christians are intolerant should look at how many mosques, temples and other places of worship exist in the Western world. Europe has plenty of mosques, and the Sikh population has many holy temples in the UK. France has many mosques. Israel even has Muslim MPs, despite the terrorism!

As for Switzerland, I understand its position. It is a white Christian country. It is, however, also a country that few citizens of non-Christian background would really live in. Honestly, how many Iranian Muslims or Indian Hindus are going to live in Switzerland, learn Swiss German, go to Alphorn concerts, wear lederhosen, etc? None. They just want the money and to leave. Why Switzerland should build religious buildings to people who will never stay, fit in and settle in their country is puzzling. Most European countries are too tolerant - for example, many Muslims in the West wear jeans, learn the local language- not so with Westerners in Muslim communities, who wouldn't be trusted if they dressed like Muslims.

I disagree with the comment about Islamophobia too. Muslims, are not like other religions. While Irish Catholics may have some link to their homeland and faith, they generally aren't as 'tribal' as Muslims. Many Muslims - even Indian born - push Islamist ideology and work for the glory of the Ummah, not their nation. Of course this is part of the "best nation" syndrome, which Muslims believe because they think Allah told them so in the Koran. Even if an Irishman were to spy on India what would he do give the plans to the IRA? Who cares. A Muslim may give it to Pakistan who may then use it against the Indians. Muslims are just a bit too 'tribal' for my tastes. Hence, the 'discrimination' and 'hate'. It's not 'hate' to want evil people dead.

The Muslims in the West have integrated much better than any Westerner/Christian could ever integrate into the Muslim world, because the Muslim world is so intolerant. Yet they demand tolerance from Europeans. The Middle East is such a home to breed-like-rabbits, sandy, racist, small-minded scared Muslim people that any smart immigrant would leave their and take their money and skills with them. The violence done to their homelands by 'integrating' Muslims exceeds any damage they could do to others.

Hence, I am joining the Saudi boycott. Also, if the Muslims keep bashing Europeans and opposing churches in Saudi Arabia we should start bashing Muslims and banning Mosques. Fair is fair!!!!!

Anonymous said...

People who say Christians are intolerant should look at how many mosques, temples and other places of worship exist in the Western world. Europe has plenty of mosques, and the Sikh population has many holy temples in the UK. France has many mosques. Israel even has Muslim MPs, despite the terrorism!

As for Switzerland, I understand its position. It is a white Christian country. It is, however, also a country that few citizens of non-Christian background would really live in. Honestly, how many Iranian Muslims or Indian Hindus are going to live in Switzerland, learn Swiss German, go to Alphorn concerts, wear lederhosen, etc? None. They just want the money and to leave. Why Switzerland should build religious buildings to people who will never stay, fit in and settle in their country is puzzling. Most European countries are too tolerant - for example, many Muslims in the West wear jeans, learn the local language- not so with Westerners in Muslim communities, who wouldn't be trusted if they dressed like Muslims.

I disagree with the comment about Islamophobia too. Muslims, are not like other religions. While Irish Catholics may have some link to their homeland and faith, they generally aren't as 'tribal' as Muslims. Many Muslims - even Indian born - push Islamist ideology and work for the glory of the Ummah, not their nation. Of course this is part of the "best nation" syndrome, which Muslims believe because they think Allah told them so in the Koran. Even if an Irishman were to spy on India what would he do give the plans to the IRA? Who cares. A Muslim may give it to Pakistan who may then use it against the Indians. Muslims are just a bit too 'tribal' for my tastes. Hence, the 'discrimination' and 'hate'. It's not 'hate' to want evil people dead.

The Muslims in the West have integrated much better than any Westerner/Christian could ever integrate into the Muslim world, because the Muslim world is so intolerant. Yet they demand tolerance from Europeans. The Middle East is such a home to breed-like-rabbits, sandy, racist, small-minded scared Muslim people that any smart immigrant would leave their and take their money and skills with them. The violence done to their homelands by 'integrating' Muslims exceeds any damage they could do to others.

Hence, I am joining the Saudi boycott. Also, if the Muslims keep bashing Europeans and opposing churches in Saudi Arabia we should start bashing Muslims and banning Mosques. Fair is fair!!!!!

Anonymous said...

People who say Christians are intolerant should look at how many mosques, temples and other places of worship exist in the Western world. Europe has plenty of mosques, and the Sikh population has many holy temples in the UK. France has many mosques. Israel even has Muslim MPs, despite the terrorism!

As for Switzerland, I understand its position. It is a white Christian country. It is, however, also a country that few citizens of non-Christian background would really live in. Honestly, how many Iranian Muslims or Indian Hindus are going to live in Switzerland, learn Swiss German, go to Alphorn concerts, wear lederhosen, etc? None. They just want the money and to leave. Why Switzerland should build religious buildings to people who will never stay, fit in and settle in their country is puzzling. Most European countries are too tolerant - for example, many Muslims in the West wear jeans, learn the local language- not so with Westerners in Muslim communities, who wouldn't be trusted if they dressed like Muslims.

I disagree with the comment about Islamophobia too. Muslims, are not like other religions. While Irish Catholics may have some link to their homeland and faith, they generally aren't as 'tribal' as Muslims. Many Muslims - even Indian born - push Islamist ideology and work for the glory of the Ummah, not their nation. Of course this is part of the "best nation" syndrome, which Muslims believe because they think Allah told them so in the Koran. Even if an Irishman were to spy on India what would he do give the plans to the IRA? Who cares. A Muslim may give it to Pakistan who may then use it against the Indians. Muslims are just a bit too 'tribal' for my tastes. Hence, the 'discrimination' and 'hate'. It's not 'hate' to want evil people dead.

The Muslims in the West have integrated much better than any Westerner/Christian could ever integrate into the Muslim world, because the Muslim world is so intolerant. Yet they demand tolerance from Europeans. The Middle East is such a home to breed-like-rabbits, sandy, racist, small-minded scared Muslim people that any smart immigrant would leave their and take their money and skills with them. The violence done to their homelands by 'integrating' Muslims exceeds any damage they could do to others.

Hence, I am joining the Saudi boycott. Also, if the Muslims keep bashing Europeans and opposing churches in Saudi Arabia we should start bashing Muslims and banning Mosques. Fair is fair!!!!!

Anonymous said...

It's interesting to see how so many people think that the west has a monopoly on ethics... let's see, the british and french created the mess in the middle east, america pretty much supports any despot dictator (yes Saddam) to ensure their flow of oil (or to protect Isreal = Egypt), the Swiz don't mind holding billions (if not trillions) of "muslim" money stolen by corrupt leaders, the germans give Isreal weapons and money everytime they cry holocust, the west donates food to the palistinians yet refuses to enforce any un resolution, the west now considers the arrest and detention of any muslim "presumed" to be a terrorits without charge as legitamite, muslims make up the no-fly list essentially jailing them from the world... can anyone tell me how stupid you would be to consider the west as our moral compas... and now they justify curtailing relegious freedom for what, can you please tell me again??? Rome once thought it too was the pincical of freedom and democracy...

Anonymous said...

All religion is just rubbish propagated by the cynical to manipulate the gullible. Take responsibility for yourself, your planet, your morals.
Be brave, understand that when you die thats the end.
Don't believe some fictional rubbish written in a book be it the Koran or the Bible.
Good luck to the Swiss, hopefully they'll ban the building of churches next!

Derek Wall said...

I think Muslims are the usual target and race not illiliberal forms of atheism is cause.